My understanding (un-researched) is that Mormonism maintains Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. Can you give any information on this perspective.
As a second question, do you think that early level Mormon teachings (for men) are vastly different from higher-level teachings?
The pretenses of my own membership in "Secret Societies" (be they Eastern Star, Masonry, DeMolay or w/e) lead me to believe that noob training is very far from high level teaching. I am curious about your experiences regarding that perspective. Many thanks for your time and effort.
The first answer is easy. Yes. Mormons believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers. Not only that, they are our brothers too, since we are all spirit children of God. The story goes that in the pre-exisitance we all lived with god and there was no progression. In order for there to be progression we would need to come to earth to get bodies. Physical bodies are required for eternal exhaltation.
Jesus and Lucifer both put themselves forward for the job of savior (the plan . . . apple, mortality, death . . . demanded a savior who could conquor death). But Jesus wanted the people to have agency, the freedom to make choices, good and bad. Lucifer wanted people to not have that choice, that way no one would be lost.
There was a great war . . . which I have always been told was fought with words, not swords, (and some how in my head it always looked like a session of the Brittish Parliment . . . "will the right honorable git in favor of free agency cede the floor now?" )
You and I both fought in the war and we can know what side we were on because we are here on earth, in physical bodies. Satan and his followers, 1/3 of the hosts of heaven, were cast to earth bodiless, and the rest of us who were on Jesus side, started the process of birth and death that would bring us all back to god, depending on our choices in this life.
Here are a few quotes from Hinkley and Wirthlin on the war in heaven.
Now part two is harder for me . . . because alas I am a woman and not privy to all the things that go on in the mens groups. There is a great deal of gender segregation in the church. I will say, the stuff you are taught in primary and in the missionary discussions is not as deep and involved as the things taught in the adult classes. I'm going to pass this question on to one of my friends who might be better equipped to answer.
If you have a question for me please send it to askanexmormon@gmail.com
I'd like to offer a second opinion (also ex-Mormon) on this question, because the "brothers" thing is often heard as a criticism of Mormonism, and I don't think it is a particularly good one. There are so many others to choose from!
ReplyDeleteFirst, "yes" is a technically correct answer. However, I think saying "Mormons believe Jesus and Satan are brothers", and nothing more, gives a false impression that Satan has some kind of divine status in Mormonism, possibly making it semi-Satanic. As best I can tell, this line of thought appeals to some religious critics of Mormonism, who will also try to argue that the stars on Mormon temples are Satanic symbols ("pentagrams"), for example. Ed Decker has a line of reasoning about the whole temple ceremony being Satanic, with Mormons being inducted into Satanism without their knowledge. It's entertaining, but not plausible.
Molly's complete answer is good. It makes it clear that one can (and I think most Mormons do) believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers only in the same sense that Jesus and I were before the creation of Earth. Some people understand this and find it objectionable because it seems to equate Jesus with the rest of us humans. I think that is perfectly fair.
About the other part of the question, the only formalized "lower" vs "higher" distinction in Mormon teachings is non-temple vs temple. The *content* is arguably not vastly different between the two, but the temple ceremony is very Masonic, with ceremonial clothing, oaths (called "covenants"), secret handshakes and so on, and Mormons are sometimes shocked by their first experience of it.
Culturally, however, there is an unspoken consensus that some matters are best avoided with new converts. The boundary is not sharp, and it's about quantity as well as quality. If a convert asks about polygamy, certainly no one would refuse to answer, but the experienced member would be very unlikely at the end to say something like "Yes, polygamy has always been difficult for me to understand. You know what else bothers me a little?" and move on to humans becoming gods or its like.
As best I can tell, for Mormon men who rise in the hierarchy the process of becoming more and more of an insider is less about belief than loyalty and a willingness to subordinate other principles to upholding the authority structure. There is no formal program. However I think most leaders are likely to find that from time to time their position requires them to defer to church authority in opposition to their own conscience or understanding. Those who "rebel" will tend not to be chosen to advance to higher positions. As a result I think there is a noticeably narrow range of personality types from somewhere around stake president on up.
Very well said, Anon. And thank you! your input was much appreciated and very helpful!
ReplyDeleteThank you for elaborating.
The funny thing is, the fall of Lucifer is not a story unique to Mormonism, or even Christianity for that matter. I find it funny how many self-proclaimed Biblical "scholars" do no know any of the traditions and other stories associated with the Bible. For instance, the story of Lilith, Adam's first wife. For Jews, it has always been quite common to talk of her, but yet, it's amazing how so few of the biggest Bible thumpers have even heard of Lilith, much less know the story because it never made it into the scriptural cannon. Understanding these traditions open a whole new level of understanding of the Bible.
ReplyDeleteOh and to the question of different level teaching, that has changed over time. At the time of Joseph Smith, it certainly existed. The highest level in Nauvoo was the Quorum of the Anointed, those who had received their Second Anointing (a now very uncommon Mormon ordinance that is often called having your calling and election made sure). Members of this quorum were the inside circle; in addition to their knowledge and participation in the Second Anointing, they also had full knowledge of polygamy, most were participants or related to the participating (polygamy under Joseph Smith was very restricted and was not known to even most church members). There were other bodies like the Council of Fifty that served other purposes and did have different levels of knowledge from those who were just average church members. Those who participated in the School of the Prophets received both secular and spiritual instruction in various forms into Utah. Much of this has been lost in the LDS church, especially with the moves to correlation in the 1980s. As the church became more corporate, things began to be more and more uniform for everyone.
ReplyDelete