How does the LDS community View the non-traditional family?

Anonaymous Asks: 


"Please feel free to disregard this question if it comes at a bad time for you personally, but what level of stigma, if any, does divorce have among Mormons? For example, if you were still Mormon, and moved into a new area where you didn't know anyone as a divorced single mother, how would you be viewed in comparison to a still-married mother, a widow with a child, a never-married single mother with a biological child, or the single mother of an adopted child? How about fathers in similar circumstances?

It seems like there has been a lot of "one man, one woman" talk lately which has come up because of same-sex marriage. Has it had an adverse effect on straight Mormons who don't have their families "properly" set up?"


This is an excellent question, and the answer is not a simple yes or no. The ideal family within Mainstream Mormonism has been one man, and one woman and children for a long time. As far as I was taught, even when polygamy was actively practiced it was not widely practiced. (I could be wrong on this, as it turns out I have not had the most reliable church history teachers throughout my life, and I have gotten the cleansed version of things.) But at least as long as I have been alive, it was one man, one woman, and children. 


That said, it is recognized that families don't all fit the mold. The main point when a family doesn't fit the mold isn't "are they or aren't they," but rather "What are they seeking? Why are they where they are? and What are their goals and aspirations?" This is true of ANY family that doesn't fit the mold. If a couple has no children--did they choose it? (that's BAD!) or is it something they are fighting to try and overcome? (that's GOOD!) A woman is single . . .  because she hasnt' found the right man, but does want greatly to be married? (good) or because she has chosen education and career? (bad) 


The examples you asked about--


a divorced single mother: who left? was there abuse? did she leave protecting her kids? did he cheat? the why matters. Is she temple worthy? Is she looking to remarry a nice LDS man? if so than she will be looked on with sympathy and given support and encouragement. 


If she left to be with someone else, or because she wasn't fulfilled . . . that might be different. Though I am racking my brains trying to think of anyone I ever met in church who was a divorced single mother where it wasn't a case of the father being the villain, and I can't think of any. I'll throw that out to readers. did you know any divorced single mothers, active in the church, who weren't victims? 


a still-married mother: This is best. you should stay married. if your marriage sucks, work harder. Endure. This is a link to one of the videos in the "I'm an Ex-Mormon" series and Heather talks about the advice she was given about her unhappy marriage.  


A widow with a child: Well who doesn't love the widows! Monson is a particular advocate of helping the widows and orphans. It's quite a joke among some former mormons. But again, it is assumed they are still striving to live the gospel, that if they weren't widows they would still be happily married for eternity. That as widows, they are faithful to their dead husbands and they live worthy to go to the temple. 


A never-married single mother with a biological child: This one is tougher. Why didn't she place the child? Did the birth father prevent her from placing? Strangly, the Church is one of the few places where it is BETTER to place a child for adoption, than to keep it if you are single and have no hope of marrying the other parent. This is not the case in most of the United States and probably not the world. But within the church . . .  she should marry, or place the baby. (good) Keeping the baby is not looked on highly. there is a stigma. not severe if she is living everything else to the best of her ability. She can repent her immorality. And she might marry. But this is a very very hard position for a young mother to be in. Her child is worthy of pity. 


On a personal note, I HUGELY support placing babies for adoption over keeping them if the mother is young or unable to care for the child. I am an adoptive mother and wouldn't BE a mother if my child's birthparents hadn't made that choice. I am continually baffled by a country that vilifies birthparents for placing babies, but makes it nearly impossible for a young woman who is considering placing a baby to do so without the burden of immense guilt. the same people who would congratulate me on my adoption would criticize my child's birthparent. But I assure you they would only do it once. 


But I digress . . . 


The single mother of an adopted child: unheard of. Just doesn't happen. (I'm sure it probably does, but it is not common and would be shocking.) Single people are not encouraged to adopt. LDS family services won't place a baby with a single parent.


What about fathers in the same circumstances: Again . . . how did he come to be a single father? is he looking righteously to remedy the situation? Is he living righteously in all other areas? was it his choice? or not? If he didn't chose it and he is striving to be a good dad and live the gospel, then he will receive great sympathy and encouragement. And probably love and baked goods from the older single females (spinsters) in the ward. 


If he chose it or if he isn't looking to marry, he may be looked down on. And his children pitied. 


This is the official church stance on what a family should be. It is not flexible. In the Proclamation it states: 

"THE FAMILY is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities. By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed.

WE WARN that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets."

I added the highlighting. As you can see, variations are acceptable . . . but only for acceptable reasons. And that poor unwed mother . . .  she better repent well. 

I hope this was enlightening to you and thanks for the question! I've missed my blog and I'm happy to be settled enough to write again! 

Thanks for reading and please send me your questions to askanexmormon@gmail.com

Molly 

Many Apologies!

I have been silent! Not because I have lacked interest or desire to post, but time has been at a premium. Divorce is never easy and mine is no exception. We have had a few moves but now seem to be settled and things should even out swiftly!

Not been easy, but I think it will be worth it!

so hit me with your questions!

Just something to leave you with: I have had a chance to see the Musical "The Book of Mormon."

I laughed until I cried!

Oh Matt and Trey . . . one or both of you are recovering Mormons, I can tell!

The play is brilliantly done, South-Park-filthy, hysterically funny. Partly because all those little tidbits you are sure must be jokes . . . AREN'T! They are true!

Very excellent.

I also read Krakauer's "Under the Banners of Heaven." I am going to need to write about that one. While the book focuses on the fundamentalist sects, it does a good job looking at the roots that the Mainstream LDS church shares with the fundamentalist sects.

Unlike many former mormons, I never could bear LDS history, as taught in the church. Too neat. Too pat. Too cleansed. It was a bit of an emotional rollercoaster to read the history of the culture I was raised in. I highly recommend the book.

Thanks for your patience!

Molly

A little bit Dirrrty! or not! The Law of Chastity--part 2

Chastity for mormons is not a simple thing, though on the inside of the church it doesn't feel as complicated as it really is. Today I'm going to talk about the general dress code, and avoiding the "appearance of evil."

Mormon's are a modest lot. They really are. Modesty in dress, manner and speech and action is all very important, taught from an early age, really pushed hard in the teen years, and carries on into adulthood. Children are dressed from a very young age the way they would dress if they did wear garments. that means nothing sleeveless, nothing that shows belly and nothing too short. This is something that follows into the teen years. The most scandelous things I ever wore were my cheerleading uniforms, and one off the shoulders home coming dress. ohhh it felt like decadent wickedness! I savored those days when I was in my tiny skirt and showing off my long legs.

But I knew girls whos mothers sewed modesty pannels into their prom and home coming dresses. I have known mothers who started their kids wearing undershirts early on, so they would be ready for the day they went to the temple and got garments. Hey! I saw you roll your eyes there!

The idea is that the body is a temple and as such should be kept clean and pure and chaste. and that if you dress modestly, you will act modestly. In church men and boys generally wear suits and ties, white shirts are preferred over colors. In general men will be clean shaven with short haircuts. Now and then you see a beard or mustache, but at the same time, now and then a letter from some church authority will be read over the pulpit saying men should be clean shaven.

Women wear skirts and dresses to church. very rarely you will see someone in pants, typically an investigator or a new member or a visitor. someone who doesn't know better. Cleavage is of course inappropriate. skirts shouldn't be above the knee. garment for the endowed adults are not to be rolled up or tucked up to accomodate fashion. they are to be worn against the skin. yep. Bras go OVER the garments, ladies. Sexy, eh?

Now in part one we saw an ambiguous video that I won't inflict on you again about how far is too far. Rules for adults are almost stranger. you are to avoid the "appearance of evil." A woman home alone, with out her husband, shouldn't even allow another man into the house. I used to get really nervous if I had to have a plumber or carpet cleaner to the house when I was home alone. not because I thought there was danger, but because there might be the appearance of evil. Men and women who are not married to each other are not to be alone together. not to ride in a car alone together, or be in either home alone together. people might get the wrong idea, you see. this is part of why home teachers come in pairs. so when they go to a single woman's house there is a built in chaperone.

One of my more recent horrifying realizations is that there really is no touching. oh lots of hand shakes, and the occasional half hug. but men and women, women and women, men and men, just really don't touch. not to hug, or pat on the back or anything. I had no idea how much I liked that sort of touchy feely stuff till i got out and met others who did touch me, and hug me and pat my back. I hadn't been aware of how much I needed that kind of contact.

This subject is by no means exhausted. We will revisit it soon!

Questions or comments for me? please leave them in the comments below, email the to askanexmormon@gmail.com

You can also find me on twitter @MollyNoLonger. No question is too weird!

Feel the POWER!! The Mormon Priesthood power, that is.

I was talking to a friend who after four years and countless discussions about religion, I still manage to surprise with bits and pieces of information about mormons. Somehow we got onto the topic of the Priesthood and how I had managed not to mention that in the past four years I don't know! His response was "Why is there no blog post about this?"

So here we go!

The Priesthood is the literal power to act in the name of God. It is the reason Mormons say theirs is the "Only True and Living" church on the earth, because they are the only ones with the priesthood.

The story goes like this: The priesthood was on the earth in ancient times (two types, Aaronic and Melchizedek--both with the authority to do different things, like baptize, bless, marry, heal, pass the sacrament, etc.) and they were used in the ancient church and Jesus gave the priesthood to his apostles through the laying on of hands. When the apostles died, the Priesthood was lost from the earth. This is the reason there had to be a restoration. It is the reason Martin Luther's efforts at reform were not enough. It is why when Joseph Smith prayed he received as an answer the very dramatic first vision.

The challenge was how to get the ancient priest hood into the modern era, considering everyone who held it was dead and it must be passed on through the laying on of hands.

President Gordon B Hinkley, the previous prophet, said it very susinctly:

"“This day of organization was, in effect, a day of commencement, the graduation for Joseph from ten years of remarkable schooling. It had begun with the incomparable vision in the grove in the spring of 1820, when the Father and the Son appeared to the fourteen-year-old boy. It had continued with the tutoring from Moroni, with both warnings and instructions given on multiple occasions. Then there was the translation of the ancient record, and the inspiration, the knowledge, the revelation that came from that experience. There was the bestowal of divine authority, the ancient priesthood again conferred upon men by those who were its rightful possessors—John the Baptist in the case of the Aaronic Priesthood, and Peter, James, and John in the case of the Melchizedek. There were revelations, a number of them, in which the voice of God was heard again, and the channel of communication opened between man and the Creator. All of these were preliminary to that historic April 6” (“150-Year Drama: A Personal View of Our History,” Ensign, Apr. 1980, 11–12)." 




Yes. John the Baptist gave Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdry the Aaronic priesthood and Peter, James and John gave them the Melchizedek Priesthood.

The Aaronic Priesthood is the lesser of the two. Boys today receive it at the age of twelve. In the mainstream LDS church women are not permitted the Priesthood, and are instead given the divine gift of motherhood. (that's a whole other blog post!) Most of the "church approved" sources about the priesthood that I have personal access to are fairly vague. I am a woman after all. But Wiki says some interesting things. Later today I'll have a few of my male friends who are in the know verify, or if you, dear reader, can verify please let me know in the comments. What I do know is that at twelve, boys pass and bless the sacrament (similar to communion . . .sort of).

At 18, just before they go on missions, they can receive the Melchizedek Priesthood. Again we will look to Wiki for more detail than I have ever had access to. I do know that at this point they can give blessings of healing and comfort, and baptize. They can give babies a name and a blessing. They can confer the gift of the Holy Ghost on the newly baptized.

Now women and the Priesthood is a whole other situation. While I never held the priesthood I was supposed to be privy to it's power through my husband's Priesthood. There are stories of women who would bless their dying children with healing in the absence of their husbands. I think there is one about a woman who blessed the dying cow that the family relied on. Here is a rather disturbing lesson that women in the Relief Society (the Women's Organization within the church) are given regularly regarding their relationship to the Priesthood and to Priesthood holders.

I feel a future blog post about the patriarchal nature of the church coming on soon.

Mormons feel most sincerely that all gifts of the spirit: tongues, healing, revelation, visions, interpretation of tongues, and any others they choose to attribute to the spirit (I used to think following directions was probably a gift of the spirit) are all a direct result of the power of the priesthood.

Got a question or comment? please share! you can send questions to askanexmormon@gmail.com or put it in the comments! You can find me on Twitter @MollyNoLonger as well!

EDIT: one more lovely tidbit . . . Every LDS man with the priesthood can trace the lineage of his Priesthood back to Jesus Christ, through Joseph Smith. I was very very surprised to see how small the list was for the men in my life.

You wanna talk about sex? --the Law of Chastity part 1

Ah the Law of Chastity . . . complex . . . . ambiguous . . . positively dangerous . . . very very controlling . . . and way too big to discuss in a single post. So today we will start here. A word of warning before viewing that video . . . it is pure ambiguous propaganda and more than a little creepy. It also echoes every standards night I ever went to. And I went to no less than 6.

Everyone back? did you get a glass of water to wash down the bad taste in your mouth? Maybe that's just me. I will admit the sexual dysfunctions instilled by the church have taken me many many hours of therapy to over come. And chances are they will take me many many more before I feel fully free of them. but this is where they began, as a teenager being told that I shouldn't even hold hands with a guy. No kissing, no "petting", no "necking", don't be alone with a boy. Don't date till you are sixteen and even then stay in groups and date only in public places.

"For the Strength of Youth" is a pamphlet young people--12 to 18--are give annually to help keep them on the straight and narrow path. It covers a myriad of topics from music and language to choosing friends, dating and sexual purity.

Ostensibly the goal is to raise youth who will be righteous and go on to serve missions and be wives and mothers, and raise righteous children.

In reality though it is isolating, serving to limit the circle of people you spend time with to mostly other LDS people. It's not even that the church teaches abstinence over safe sex. They teach something even higher. Don't do anything to engender the strong passions of sexuality.

The rules are so ambiguous. It's a bit like trying to keep someone from burning themselves on the stove top by never letting them in the kitchen at all.

Masturbation is a big no no. And the church disagrees with oral sex even between a husband and wife. So they do not teach safe smart sex. For a brief time to regulate my cycles, I was put on birth control. my mother was horrified. She was very upset by the thought that taking the pills would some how make  me think it would be ok to have sex. Like learning about being safe or smart would make me feel the need to rush out and become the school harlot.

The total repression of sexuality leads to married couples who often have no idea what they are doing. They don't have the experience to know what they want or need sexually. They avoid sources that could teach them. Sex is sacred so they don't talk about it much outside of the marriage. Sex is reproductive, so they have large families, often starting very very young. and if they should have difficulty conceiving they are in for pain and misery. Years of it.

This is the very broadest look at sexuality as taught in the mormon church. there are so many areas where the church controls this, often in subtle ways, that it will take a few posts to cover.

have any questions about it? Send them my way, in the comments, on twitter @mollynolonger or email me at askanexmormon@gmail.com

Guest Exmormon answers the question: Why do Mormons who are getting married exclude family and friends from attending weddings in Mormon Temples?

A big thanks to Suspicious Minds for this next essay addressing the exclusion of family from LDS Temple Weddings. 


"Many LDS Members are ashamed that North American Saints who choose to have a civil ceremony are penalized when it comes to the temple. Any man and woman who chooses to have a civil ceremony first, must wait a full year before solemnizing their marriage vows in the temple -- no matter what. Even if they are living the Church standards and are obedient members that are free from any sin that would bar them from the temple, they are still considered unworthy of a temple sealing for a minimum one year.

Many Mormon’s living outside of North America are NOT penalized the same way in those countries where the law requires a civil ceremony to be recognized as a legal  marriage prior to any religious ritual.

So rather than face the harsh penalty of waiting a full year and the stigma of choosing a civil wedding ceremony first, most North American LDS couples choose to have only a temple marriage and sealing, and their family members and friends who are not active LDS adults cannot attend their ceremony.

For a church that through media advertising promotes itself as family values oriented, it’s simply incomprehensible that the Church denies family members be present at a wedding, a time considered by all to be a joyous celebration that brings and unites an entire family.  By it’s very actions through it’s policies, the Church fosters marital disharmony, shame and guilt that is harsh for the couple and their loved ones who do not fit the "acceptable mormon standards" required for entrance into the temple wedding.

The temple wedding presents a cruel dilemma to first generation converts and those from mixed-faith families.  On the one hand members of the LDS Church have the promise of the temple sealing, to be with the people they love as a family after death.  The Church warns that a civil wedding only binds the couple till death do they part.  The temple sealing however is for time and all eternity.  The irony is for active worthy Mormons to secure for themselves those sealing blessings of an eternal family, some have to leave the very people they want that promise to apply to at the temple doors.

Don't let your loved ones be hurt.  Tell the leadership of the Mormon Church that it’s about time for family and to give people the choice without penalizing and isolating family.

For more information and how to get involved, check out the petition for change. http://www.templeweddingpetition.org

Family, isn’t it about time?"

On a personal note--Molly speaking now--my sibling was excluded from my wedding for being underage by 6 months. 

If you have a question about mormons or mormonism maybe you should ask an ex-mormon! 

askanexmormon@gmail.com

FAQ #7 No coffee? But coke is ok?

You have probably noticed that your mormon friends abstain from tea, coffee, alcohol, and tobacco. Some may avoid caffeine altogether. I always did. It's an almost intrusive eating code, and many mormons won't simply say no thank you, they will add "I'm mormon." 


What is this all about? I'm glad you asked!


This is about keeping the Word of Wisdom. This is a code of health that mormons believe Joseph Smith was given by god. It is the 89th section of the Doctrine and Covenants . 


So the story goes after one of the men's meetings, Emma Smith was disgusted by all the tobacco all over the floor that they had left for her to clean up and she went to Joseph and complained and he decided to "inquire of the Lord." The result was the Word of Wisdom--which at the time was not commandment, but has since become commandment. 


Most mormons are pretty good at the big don'ts--tea, coffee, alcohol, tobacco--but really stink at the smaller ones. the code pretty much suggests that people are meant to be vegetarians; "12Yea, ^aflesh also of ^bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used ^csparingly;

 13And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be ^aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or ^bfamine." so . . . eat it, but only if you have to . . . this is largely ignored by the carnivorous population of the church. There are also restrictions on fats, but you wouldn't know it if you attend an LDS pot luck. 

The Word of Wisdom does not specify caffeine and there is some debate as to what substance in coffee and tea god really wanted his children to avoid--caffeine? or tanic acid? (at least I heard a lot of this growing up). This is how come some mormons avoid all caffeine and some guzzle the coke and pepsi. 

The word of wisdom is said to be a "principle with a promise"--if you follow it you will live a long and healthy life. Well there is truth to that. Clean living does help you live longer and mormons are famed for their clean living. 

It is one of those principles that is cherry-picked though. People do the big parts, and skip the smaller. 

Got a question? send it my way at askanexmormon@gmail.com

Tweet Tweet! so . . . I got a twitter!

Tweet to me at @MollyNoLonger and I'll tweet on back! Questions, comments, interesting and/or raunchy emoticons? why not!

sent my first tweet too . . .

Soon I'll be delivering the truth about the lds church in 145 characters or less!

Follow me and I will follow you back!

Do Mormons think Jesus and Satan are Brothers?

Someauthor asks:

My understanding (un-researched) is that Mormonism maintains Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. Can you give any information on this perspective.

As a second question, do you think that early level Mormon teachings (for men) are vastly different from higher-level teachings?

The pretenses of my own membership in "Secret Societies" (be they Eastern Star, Masonry, DeMolay or w/e) lead me to believe that noob training is very far from high level teaching. I am curious about your experiences regarding that perspective. Many thanks for your time and effort.

The first answer is easy. Yes. Mormons believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers. Not only that, they are our brothers too, since we are all spirit children of God. The story goes that in the pre-exisitance we all lived with god and there was no progression. In order for there to be progression we would need to come to earth to get bodies. Physical bodies are required for eternal exhaltation. 

Jesus and Lucifer both put themselves forward for the job of savior (the plan  . . . apple, mortality, death . . . demanded a savior who could conquor death). But Jesus wanted the people to have agency, the freedom to make choices, good and bad. Lucifer wanted people to not have that choice, that way no one would be lost.

There was a great war . . . which I have always been told was fought with words, not swords, (and some how in my head it always looked like a session of the Brittish Parliment  . . . "will the right honorable git in favor of free agency cede the floor now?" )

You and I both fought in the war and we can know what side we were on because we are here on earth, in physical bodies. Satan and his followers, 1/3 of the hosts of heaven, were cast to earth bodiless, and the rest of us who were on Jesus side, started the process of birth and death that would bring us all back to god, depending on our choices in this life. 

Here are a few quotes from Hinkley and Wirthlin on the war in heaven.

Now part two is harder for me  . . . because alas I am a woman and not privy to all the things that go on in the mens groups. There is a great deal of gender segregation in the church. I will say, the stuff you are taught in primary and in the missionary discussions is not as deep and involved as the things taught in the adult classes. I'm going to pass this question on to one of my friends who might be better equipped to answer. 

If you have a question for me please send it to askanexmormon@gmail.com

"The Spirit of God, like a fire is burning . . ."

Liam asks:

Have you experienced the infamous "Burning in the Bosom?"


For those who may not know, this is the catch phrase for feeling the Holy Spirit or the Holy Ghost. The names are interchangeable. The Holy Ghost is the third member of the godhead and he has no physical body (god and Jesus do.) He can be many places at once and isn't bound by laws of physics. It is his job to testify of truth to your soul. He also warns of danger. Everyone can access the Holy Ghost--you know the Jiminy Cricket conscience we are all familiar with? That's the holy ghost. Or so the LDS church claims. When a person is baptised, they are them confirmed members of the church and given the gift of the holy ghost, so that they will always have that "still small voice" in the back of their heads telling them what is right and what is wrong and what is good and what is bad. 


For most this happens at the age of eight, and for me, it was very easy to visualize that conscience as a literal being whispering in my ear. Of course I also thought if i spun around in circles enough times I actually -would- turn into Wonder Woman. 8 year old brains are very impressionable. 


Now the main job of the holy spirit is to testify of truth, and this comes as a burning in the bosom. and Yes, I have felt it. So have you. It's a warm fuzzy, appropriated by the church doctrine, just like the concept of the conscience was, and accredited to the Spirit. 


I have felt that in spiritual moments, when I felt a great connection to the universe, the divine, the people around me. Girls camp was practically a Warm Fuzzy high! There was just so much love and estrogen! and Youth Conference too. 300 young people all pressed together and feeling such community and love. Yes. I felt the burning in my bosom. and I did attribute it to the Holy Spirit. 


But I also felt it when I graduated College. and there have been a handful of kisses that left me walking on air! And the day I adopted my baby. and the day I bought my house. And I felt it a few weeks ago as I knelt outside on a sunday weeding my garden and wearing a sleeveless shirt and drinking coffee. I've felt it when reading John Donne's poetry. And when listening to good Jazz music. I have felt it when marveling at historical sites and touching things that people built 3000 years ago. 


That the church appropriates and exploits this warm fuzzy phenomenon is really pure advertising. 




I was asked why I left the church if I felt this . . . 


because an emotional response like that is not enough to hold up next to facts, and reality. 
It simply isn't. No more than the warm flush of happiness after a first kiss means it's love and it will last forever. 


Faith is not Knowlege and it turns out for me, faith simply wasnt enough. 








Do you have a question? Send it my way at askanexmormon@gmail.com

FAQ #6 Do Mormons. . . .

Have horns?

No. Though I did used to tell non Mormons that mine had been filed down.

Dance?

Yes. But only to uplifting music with no bad language and positive messages

Celebrate birthdays?

Yes. In the fairly traditional way.

Celebrate christmas?

Yes. And some welcome Santa as part of their celebration, some don't. Though I think he is down played in most Mormon homes.

Listen to music?

Yes. But music is to be carefully chosen to only bring good into your world. If you wouldn't want to listen to it with jesus then you shouldn't listen to it.

Self-flagellate?

No, alas.

Later I'll talk about tithes and the whole no smoking, no drinking thing. In the mean time if you have a question about Mormons send it my way! Aakanexmormon@gmail.com

FAQ #5 You wear what? The magic undies.

Garments. Temple Garments specifically.


Sexy, eh?
Ok, so for those of you looking at that and saying wtf, there is an explanation! (I can't promise the explanation won't also make you go "wtf?") Do you remember Adam and Eve? Garden, Apple, Snake? Well, in that story, after they ate the apple and became aware of their nakedness, they made aprons of fig leaves, and then after hiding from god, when he found them, he told them to make coats of animal skins. The derivative of those coats of skins are the delightful polyester and poly-cotton confections you see before you.

When an adult goes through the temple for the first time, they are given garments to wear, as a representation of the clothing given to Adam and Eve in the Garden. It is meant to be protective, and worn always next to the skin, a constant reminder of god in their lives.

First I'll talk about the rules, and then the protection.

You wear these garments day and night. in all your activities except things where they would be seen and mocked, like a swimming pool, or a doctors office. They are to be worn in bed. You may remove them for sex, but should put them back on as soon as possible. They are not to be rolled up at the knees to be shorter, not are the sleeves to be rolled up. Clothing should be modest enough to cover the garments up completely. They are to be worn against the skin . . . that's right ladies, bras go over these babies! It's not all bad though, you do save a lot not shopping at Victoria's secret . . . because would you really put one of those sexy numbers over that? If you doubt my understanding of this, here is the official church guidelines on the wearing and care of the garments.

The protections is a little fuzzier. There are some mormons who will swear up and down that the garments give an actual physical protection from physical harm. And you do find those sort of apocryphal "a friend of a friend . . ." type tales about protection from fire, even bullets. But on the whole mormons are taught that the protection is spiritual, not physical. They help you stay modest and chaste. They remind you of god all the time, and that will help you make better choices. As for physical protection . . . well . . . they do prevent chafing.

Here is a 1997 conference talk on the garments, fully charged with all of it's holy glory and power.

Curious about something? Have a question for me, or something to add? stick it in the comments or send your questions to askanexmormon@gmail.com

Do mormons really think they can convert adults to their religion with this door to door stuff?

Question posed by Waterrat in Reddit.

The simple answer is Yes. They think they can because they do!

have you ever bought anything from a door to door sales man? I have. Just last year I bought a lawn care system!

Really, that is what proselyting is--door to door sales  . . . with a twist.

They are young and filled with the zeal of righteousness and the spirit of god and they are quite literally on a mission, so when you open your door to their fresh smiling faces all you will feel from them is good will and love and sincerity. Its a really good place to start. I always lean more toward buying when my salesman believes in the product he is selling.

And the Gospel is a hard sell, not a soft sell. They try and have a person committed to baptism after the first lesson. The Commitment Pattern is a big part of that. And like all sales people, they are persistent. give them a tiny opening and they will work to take advantage.

Once they are in the door, they have a plan in hand and go to. New Missionaries are give three months of intensive training at the MTC (Missionary Training Center) in Utah.  It could be two now. it used to be three. (I personally didn't go n a mission, I was told it was my job to stay home and get married, but that is a whole other post!) Once in the field, they are paired with an older Missionary so you have the senior one training the junior one as they go. The MTC is also where they learn the language of the country where they will teack if it isn't English. And when they get there they are functional, if not proficient in the language. And they can give the Missionary discussions with ease.

And now to the tools of the trade . . . the Missionary discussions. This is a set of five well organized classes giving to the individual in a discussion style, generally in the investigator's home. By the third discussion they like to have a firm commitment of baptism. though I understand they start seeking a commitment at the first discussion. I was 7 when I took the discussions so they have changed a bit.

While they are teaching you, someone else will be fellowshipping you, making sure you have rides to church and church activities, making sure you feel included, introducing you to everyone, inviting you to dinner and Family Home Evenings, making sure your needs are met--that there is food in your cupboard (Yes, church welfare is a missionary tool too), Petting and praising you for finding the truth and now being in the know. A number of people will do this actually, and it isn't assigned. It happens organically.

and then . . . . . BAM! you're in! and once in, you (ideally) will be so surrounded by the spirit, so busy with classes and callings and activities and daily scripture study and prayer, that you will be easily absorbed into the day to day life of being LDS. Because it is a way of life, it is all to easy, once in, to have it fill so much of your time and focus that you don't even realize you have isolated yourself from your former life.

By the time the missionaries leave your life, after the discussions, you are firmly ensconced in your new life, and the role of keeping you part of the community has been passed on to the membership. And it all started with a knock on the door from a fresh-faced pair of young men in white shirts and ties.

Be sure to look in the comments for more details from people who actually were missionaries!

If you have a question for me send it my way at askanexmormon@gmail.com or leave it in the comments, or ask me on reddit - MollyNo-Longer.

So who wrote the Book of Mormon?--a historical view from Sapper Daddy

A Big welcome back to Sapper Daddy who writes about the Spaulding-Rigdon theory of Book of Mormon Authorship. I will mention that this--while very plausible--is not what your average mormon will tell you about who wrote the Book of Mormon or how it came to be. Mormons are often woefully ignorant of their history. The versions they are taught are highly cleansed. and now . . . Sapper Daddy!


I mentioned earlier about the Spaulding-Rigdon theory of Book of Mormon authorship.  So what it it? 

Solomon Spaulding was born in Connecticut in 1761, .  He, among other things, was an author.  In his various fictional works, he portrayed the Native Americans as lost peoples from the Old World (sound familiar?).  One of his works, entitledManuscript Found, circulated among his friends and family.  One of the places that Spaulding lived was in Northeastern Ohio in the town of Conneaut.  Spaulding moved to Pittsburg, where he attempted to get his work published, but on condition that he pay for the printing and make some revisions to the manuscript.  Spaulding never did get enough money to have his work published before his death in 1815.  The manuscript described a man named Lehi and his son Nephi and their family's journey to the New World from Jerusalem (again, sound familiar?) and their subsequent split into groups called Nephites and Lamanites.  The manuscript, for a time, disappeared from the printer's shop.  Spaulding suspected a young man who worked at the shop of having stolen and copied this manuscript.  His name was Sidney Rigdon.  Yes, the same Sidney Rigdon who was a close associate of Joseph Smith and at times Smith's closest confidant and friend. 

Rigdon became the pastor of a Baptist Church in Pittsburg.  Rigdon adopted many divergent beliefs from his Baptist faith, adopting many practices of of groups in the area that experimented with things like communitarianism and modern prophecy.  One thing to remember is that the context of the time and place was one of extensive religious revival, known as the Second Great Awakening.  The area around the Erie Canal where the early events of Mormonism took place was known as the Burned Over District because of all the revivalist preachers and prophets who frequented the area and condemned it to hell repeatedly.  As the Erie Canal was one of the largest building projects ever even contemplated in the United States with a rapid influx of workers and new immigrants into a previously area of wilderness, this area was in great upheaval.  Many of the workers were rough men, who alarmed many of the established settlers.  To cope with these gigantic, rapid changes in society, many residents turned to religion. 

Most important for the development of Rigdon's theology was the Baptist reformer Alexander Campbell.  Campbell believed that Christians needed to go back to a primitive church structure as he believed existed in the time of the apostles and that there was a great apostacy from the teaching of Christ in modern Christianity.  Ridgon's church split with those who followed him merging with a similiar congregation in the area to for what they called the Church of Christ.  By 1827, Rigdon had started to write his own version of Spauling's work, mixing it with biblical teachings to make his own scripture.  In 1828, Rigdon met Parley P. Pratt and Oliver Cowdery, who connected him with Joseph Smith.  With his own book of scripture complete, but needing a way to publish it that removed him from the process, they story of Joseph Smith's conversations with God and angels was perfect.  Together with Oliver Cowdery, Rigdon prepared the manuscript for publication with Smith's help.  Finding a way to dupe well-to-do farmer Martin Harris with Smith's gift of translation (probably reading scraps of the manuscript placed into a hat).  As part of the confidence scheme, Smith gained the trust of Harris and managed to get the book finally published.

This is of course a simplified explanation of a very detailed and very complex theory of where the Book of Mormon came from, but the pieces to seem to fit quite well and it does seem to explain where things came from.  I would encourage anyone interested to look at some of the recently published, peer reviewed, computer analysis-based publications that look at the text and attempt to determine who wrote which parts.  These publications seem to confirm that it was generally Rigdon, with some parts tied together by Cowdery.  


______


If you have a question for me or SD, please send it to Askanexmormon@gmail.com


Also please follow the blog if you want to keep up with all the zany bits of truth I'm dropping on you! 

FAQ #4 So do mormons think they go to heaven and everyone else goes to hell?

This is one of my favorite questions, in large part because the answer is so completely out there.  And it starts with a picture.



That is "The Plan of Salvation." It is a fairly simplistic version. If you look you can find far more involved diagrams. But this is the one children are taught from the begining and it is used in adult classes too. The basic spiel is this: We all lived with god before we were born (Pre-Mortal Existance), but god knew that we would need to have bodies in order to grow and progress and, yes, become gods and goddesses too. So he made a plan . . . Earth! he made Adam and Eve, and they, of course, ate the apple. They had to, in fact. It was the only was for them to become self aware enough to have children. And breed they did! But because of the Fall, mankind needed a savior . . . Christ. Jesus came and died and then was resurrected. and because he did we all can. Now, we don't remember the pre-mortal existence, nor the war in heaven, nor Satan and 1/3rd of the hosts of heaven being cast down to earth because at birth there is a "Veil of Forgetfulness" set in place. That is because life is a test of faith.

So. here we are on Earth. With our physical bodies. Now we get to grow, but we have to do certain things on earth . . . with our bodies . . . to reach the highest level of Glory. Not heaven, mind you, "glory." We have to be baptised, get our temple endowments, and be married. And all of that requires a body. When people die, if they have been baptised (by priesthood authority at the age of 8 or older--not just any old baptism) then they go to a kind of waiting room--Spirit paradise--part of the Spirit World. Those who were not baptised go to a kind of spirtual holding cell--spirit prison--also part of the spirit world. The two worlds aren't separate, they mingle. That way the ones in paradise can do missionary work and teach the ones in prison and while they do that, the faithful, still alive on earth, will do the baptisms and temple work for the dead. Every wonder -why- mormons are so phenomenally good at geneology? That's right. They have to baptise all those prisoners.
Once all the prisoners are baptised they are ready for the next stage--Ressurection. This is the reuniting of the spirit with a perfected and immortal body. You will  still be you, only hotter, thinner, more hair, whiter teeth, all imperfections gone. Ressurection is a free gift. It is the product of Christ's death and ressurection. Everyone is ressurected. The good, the bad and the ugly. No exceptions.

Judgement is the part where who and what you were in life matters. it is what determines your glory. you will be judged by Jesus and all the apostles . . . I always was glad Judas would be among the judges . . . and we will be judged on our works.

after Judgement we all go to one of four kingdoms of glory:

Celestial--the highest, you live with god, and you have your family forever. This is the only group that will become gods and goddesses and go on to create worlds and spirit children of their own. You have to be married, and sealed in the temple to be here. (and just like that we are back to polygamy!) This is where the faithful and repentant go. Any who have been baptised, either in person or by proxy in the temple. By the way, the dead who are baptised get to choose whether or not they accept the work.

Terrestrial--you live with Jesus. It's still pretty awesome, but no god the father, no eternal families, no progression, no worlds and no spirit children. This is for decent people who chose not to accept baptism.

Telestial--you live with the holy ghost. This is where the bad people go. it's  . . . . well . . . it's not like any other hell you have heard of. often Joseph Smith is credited with saying something to the effect of, if people could see the telestial kingdom, they would be killing themselves to get it. Nice that, really. this is where suicides would go. No progression. but you live forever safe and happy. you never see god, or Jesus and that is the deepest grief.

Then there is "Outer Darkness" or the kingdom of no glory. This is hell. and it is really really hard to get in. you have to have "known the truth" and then denied it. This is more than a loss of faith. It means you knew, empirically, unquestionably, and still turned away. so . . . . um . . . . YOU won't be going here . .  just in case you were worried.

And that is the mormon heaven in as close to a nutshell as you can get it. Here is a link to a lesson manual page about the kingdoms to give you a more formal snapshot than I did.

Do you have a question about mormons, or mormonism? send it on to me at askanexmormon@gmail.com

Do mormons make couples consummate their new marriages inside the temples?

Are temple marriages consummated in the temple? This news story
about the flds eldorado temple says they do.
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/21110/flds-temple

If they are not consummated in the LDS church currently, is there
any evidence that ever was practiced in the early church?



Dave U. Random


Thank you for your question Mr. Random, and first let me say that article is more than a little disturbing. I can't speak for the FLDS (Fundamental Latter-Day Saints, I think) church. It is as foreign to me as it is to most people. But in the LDS church proper, I can say with surety that, as practiced today, no, LDS marriages are not consummated in the temples. 


The temple ceremonies place a major emphasis on chastity and modesty, as does the church in general. It's stiflingly modest and chaste in fact. On my wedding day the only time my husband and I touched at all in the temple was when her took my hand over the alter so we could agree to the vows. It was . . . pardon the pun . . . very anti-climactic. The church is extremely sexually repressive. I think a little kink in the temple might spice it up! but no. Sex is only acceptable between a man and a woman who are married and even then it is intended to be private and sacred and procreative, a holy union. 


the second part of your question--did this ever happen--made me do a little digging. I doubted it, but I did check to see if i could find anything on it. I wondered if maybe there was the tinyest chance I had missed that in the history. but no. 


While the temple ceremony has changed, it hasn't changed quite that much. But when it has changed, the changes have been very Orwellian. The change is made--for example something is removed--and then it is simple never discussed and in no time it is like what ever was removed was never there to begin with. 


When I went through the temple some 13 years ago, my friend told me, "There used to be a part where it told you the consequences of breaking your vows." Now it's just a vague warning of dreadful things that will take place if you don't live up to every vow made in the temple. 


I googled recently and found out what he meant by telling you the consequences. 


This is a fairly accurate transcript of what is said in the temple. Though some of it, like the Blood Oaths, are no longer part of the ceremony. And this page is a pretty good description of some of the things that were removed. 


I bring up these other issues because it shows the changes that have been made in the temple ceremonies. As for the consummation, I think there would still be traces and hints, even in the Orwellian and cleansed history of the church. 


*****
If you have a question about mormons or mormonism, please send it my way at askanexmormon@gmail.com

Truth revealed or something like that . . .

In my last post I mentioned a lecture and have since gotten the links to it. It illuminate in a doctrinal way, the mormon ideas on the last days and the book of revelation. Now I haven't yet watched it all, but I'm posting the link here anyway, and as I do watch I'll post some of my thoughts.

I wish I had the stamina to go through it all at once, but I just can't swallow all that doctrine as easily as I once did.

"The Key to Understanding the Book of Revelation" 

Watch with me and share your thoughts in the comments if you like.

And if you have a question about mormonism, or about the mormons in your life, send it my way at askanexmormon@gmail.com

OMG! I wasn't raptured!

My friend suggested in light of all the not rapturing that happened, that I do a post on the mormon concept of rapture, and the book of revelations. 


First off, not a single mormon was worried about the end of the world yesterday. They cling to Matthew 24:36, "But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." So while no one knows when it will happen, you can be pretty damn sure it won't happen when someone pinpoints a time and date. They don't call it the rapture, they call it the Second Coming. When Christ will come in power and glory and rule on the earth for a thousand years. 


Before that happens, they believe things will get bad. Really really bad. Wars and Rumors of wars, Earthquakes in diverse places, floods famine. It will not be pretty. 


For myself, I was afraid of the end of days. I held onto the promises of the prophets that those who were prepared and righteous would be ok. I had my food storage--several cases of wheat and rice and beans, potatoes, sugar, salt, flour, dried milk and so on-- and my water storage ready. I made sure I had a current temple recommend I'm fuzzy on the details, because they really did scare me at the time, but the idea was that when Christ returned the saints would gather again in the New Jerusalem which would be established in Missouri. I always had the impression we would be pushing handcarts there and I felt very sorry for all the mormons in European countries, because the waters would not be safe. Those temple recommends were very important. They would be the entry pass into the Zion, the New Jerusalem. 


I have a friend who has offered to send me a copy of a very good lecture on the LDS conception of the Book of Revelation. When it comes I'll post a review and a link. I'll check in with a few other Ex-mormon friends who were maybe not as scared of the second coming way back when they were devout. 




if you have a question you'd like to ask an ex-mormon please email me at askanexmormon@gmail.com